Comments on: My 401k Hidden Fees Experiment http://thefinancebuff.com/2008/07/my-401k-hidden-fees-experiment.html like a friend telling you about money ... Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:44:17 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: TFB http://thefinancebuff.com/2008/07/my-401k-hidden-fees-experiment.html/comment-page-1#comment-705 TFB Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:44:00 +0000 http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=272#comment-705 Ted - This exercise is intended to find out if there are *hidden* fees beyond what the fund charges. It cannot reveal the costs within the fund, like soft dollars. If the plan uses retail mutual funds, then the NAV cannot be manipulated because the NAV and performance numbers have to be published for retail customers as well. If the funds are wrapped or in-house separate accounts, because the provider uses the same fund for many plans which have different fee structures depending on negotiations, it's very difficult or impossible to manipulate the fund's NAV <i>for each plan</i>. Ted – This exercise is intended to find out if there are *hidden* fees beyond what the fund charges. It cannot reveal the costs within the fund, like soft dollars. If the plan uses retail mutual funds, then the NAV cannot be manipulated because the NAV and performance numbers have to be published for retail customers as well. If the funds are wrapped or in-house separate accounts, because the provider uses the same fund for many plans which have different fee structures depending on negotiations, it's very difficult or impossible to manipulate the fund's NAV for each plan.

]]> By: Ted http://thefinancebuff.com/2008/07/my-401k-hidden-fees-experiment.html/comment-page-1#comment-704 Ted Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:09:00 +0000 http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=272#comment-704 tfb - What if the fund is manipulating the NAV to hide the fees. Then we'd never know, correct? tfb – What if the fund is manipulating the NAV to hide the fees. Then we'd never know, correct?

]]> By: TFB http://thefinancebuff.com/2008/07/my-401k-hidden-fees-experiment.html/comment-page-1#comment-703 TFB Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:01:00 +0000 http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=272#comment-703 Anon - Yes, there is a possibility they only deduct fees at year end or in the first quarter. That's why I said "there were no hidden fees deducted from my account <i>during the quarter</i>." and not there are no hidden fees in my plan, period. I intend to leave this little bit of money in that test fund and keep watching it. Even if there are no hidden fees now, hidden fees can be added later. It's unfortunate we have to go this far just to find out if we are paying extra fees in our 401k plan. Anon – Yes, there is a possibility they only deduct fees at year end or in the first quarter. That's why I said "there were no hidden fees deducted from my account during the quarter." and not there are no hidden fees in my plan, period. I intend to leave this little bit of money in that test fund and keep watching it. Even if there are no hidden fees now, hidden fees can be added later. It's unfortunate we have to go this far just to find out if we are paying extra fees in our 401k plan.

]]> By: Anonymous http://thefinancebuff.com/2008/07/my-401k-hidden-fees-experiment.html/comment-page-1#comment-702 Anonymous Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:42:00 +0000 http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=272#comment-702 I don't know that you can correctly draw the conclusion you did. In my plan, the "hidden fees" become evident *only* at the end of the calendar year.<br/><br/>I believe you pretty much have to hold this fund through the calendar-year-end to ascertain the answer to your "hidden fee" question. I don't know that you can correctly draw the conclusion you did. In my plan, the "hidden fees" become evident *only* at the end of the calendar year.

I believe you pretty much have to hold this fund through the calendar-year-end to ascertain the answer to your "hidden fee" question.

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