Comments on: Bartering and Taxes http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html like a friend telling you about money ... Sat, 20 Mar 2010 00:52:38 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: KingofthePaupers http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html/comment-page-1#comment-1720 KingofthePaupers Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:16:40 +0000 http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html#comment-1720 Jct: When I visited Europe in 1999, I paid for 39/40 nights of accommodations with an IOU for a night back in Canada worth 5 Hours. It's only a matter of time until all systems based on the Time Standard of Money will use the internet to intertrade globally. I did. We need the United Nations Millennium Declaration UNILETS Resolution C6 to governments for a time-based currency to restructure the global financial architecture. Barter Timebanks are economic lifeboats. See my banking systems engineering analysis at http://youtube.com/kingofthepaupers with an index of articles at http://johnturmel.com/kotp.htm Jct: When I visited Europe in 1999, I paid for 39/40 nights of accommodations with an IOU for a night back in Canada worth 5 Hours.
It’s only a matter of time until all systems based on the Time Standard of Money will use the internet to intertrade globally. I did.
We need the United Nations Millennium Declaration UNILETS Resolution C6 to governments for a time-based currency to restructure the global financial architecture. Barter Timebanks are economic lifeboats.
See my banking systems engineering analysis at http://youtube.com/kingofthepaupers with an index of articles at http://johnturmel.com/kotp.htm

]]> By: sewall http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html/comment-page-1#comment-1718 sewall Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:24:56 +0000 http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html#comment-1718 There are plenty of examples of exchanges of services for non-monetary reward: Wikipedia, open source software development, are some prominent successful ones, but also ordinary assistance of a neighbor, friend, or family member. If money isn't what motivates, what does? Some answers: Prestige, reputation, a feeling of fulfillment, any number of non-monetary rewards. The rewards in these cases are not only non-monetary, there is no clear unit of currency or store of value. Nothing like money at all. A barter system is similar in some ways. I think it aims exploit, foster, and build on the feelings one associates with non-rewarded services. There's a sense of giving, even though you do get something quantifiable back, just because it isn't dollars. I think a barter system is just attempting to take advantage of both systems: a money-only reward system and a non-monetary one. Yes, they could just use money. But if they did, I think many involved would find that something was lost. After all, anyone participating in the barter system could stop and just sell their services in the market. Why don't they? The clearly are increasing their utility by participating in the barter system. One cannot dismiss this out-of-hand. Something is different, even if only psychologically. The associations with dollars are strong; there is much psychological baggage. Perhaps removing that changes the economy in an important way. There are plenty of examples of exchanges of services for non-monetary reward: Wikipedia, open source software development, are some prominent successful ones, but also ordinary assistance of a neighbor, friend, or family member. If money isn’t what motivates, what does? Some answers: Prestige, reputation, a feeling of fulfillment, any number of non-monetary rewards. The rewards in these cases are not only non-monetary, there is no clear unit of currency or store of value. Nothing like money at all.

A barter system is similar in some ways. I think it aims exploit, foster, and build on the feelings one associates with non-rewarded services. There’s a sense of giving, even though you do get something quantifiable back, just because it isn’t dollars. I think a barter system is just attempting to take advantage of both systems: a money-only reward system and a non-monetary one.

Yes, they could just use money. But if they did, I think many involved would find that something was lost. After all, anyone participating in the barter system could stop and just sell their services in the market. Why don’t they? The clearly are increasing their utility by participating in the barter system. One cannot dismiss this out-of-hand. Something is different, even if only psychologically. The associations with dollars are strong; there is much psychological baggage. Perhaps removing that changes the economy in an important way.

]]> By: simplesimon http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html/comment-page-1#comment-1716 simplesimon Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:20:10 +0000 http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html#comment-1716 @SJ You're right, I'm sure those kind of restaurants exist everywhere in America. The thing that puzzled me was how China has TRILLIONS in cash reserves. I just haven't bothered looking into why that is. @SJ

You’re right, I’m sure those kind of restaurants exist everywhere in America. The thing that puzzled me was how China has TRILLIONS in cash reserves. I just haven’t bothered looking into why that is.

]]> By: SJ http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html/comment-page-1#comment-1714 SJ Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:29:51 +0000 http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html#comment-1714 @simplesimon LOL at Tax Filing day. Also, there are shady restaurants everywhere that don't take credit or give receipts =D Just check college campuses! The other idea would be it's preparation for the apocalypse when money has no value... Also, I think casual trade kind of keeps it in equals as opposed to going thru cash. @simplesimon

LOL at Tax Filing day.
Also, there are shady restaurants everywhere that don’t take credit or give receipts =D Just check college campuses!

The other idea would be it’s preparation for the apocalypse when money has no value… Also, I think casual trade kind of keeps it in equals as opposed to going thru cash.

]]> By: simplesimon http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html/comment-page-1#comment-1708 simplesimon Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:22:25 +0000 http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html#comment-1708 How do you tax the exchange of goods? *Tax Filing Day* "Oh man, the IRS says I owe 3 necklaces and 2 sets of earrings." =) When I was in China, most restaurants I went to didn't give receipts so that the government can't keep track of transactions. The Chinese government is trying to encourage customers to ask for receipts by implementing little "scratchers" on receipt paper so customers can win something (usually money). I don't know how it works in retail stores as I didn't do any shopping (besides the street booths). How do you tax the exchange of goods?

*Tax Filing Day*
“Oh man, the IRS says I owe 3 necklaces and 2 sets of earrings.”

=)

When I was in China, most restaurants I went to didn’t give receipts so that the government can’t keep track of transactions. The Chinese government is trying to encourage customers to ask for receipts by implementing little “scratchers” on receipt paper so customers can win something (usually money). I don’t know how it works in retail stores as I didn’t do any shopping (besides the street booths).

]]> By: TFB http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html/comment-page-1#comment-1705 TFB Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:44:27 +0000 http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html#comment-1705 Just to be clear, the IRS says casual bartering is not taxable. But if you do it as a business -- like the jewelry maker in the quoted article, making and selling jewelry is her business -- then it's supposed to be taxed whether you receive money, or goods and services in return. Just to be clear, the IRS says casual bartering is not taxable. But if you do it as a business — like the jewelry maker in the quoted article, making and selling jewelry is her business — then it’s supposed to be taxed whether you receive money, or goods and services in return.

]]> By: The Weakonomist http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html/comment-page-1#comment-1703 The Weakonomist Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:37:25 +0000 http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/bartering-and-taxes.html#comment-1703 Sorry to say it but there is no way the govt can come after you for bartering. I help my brother move and he buys me dinner, the IRS will not know. But by doing it at the time bank you do open the doors for tax implications. I'd love to see this trend continue just to see how an industry develops around it. Sorry to say it but there is no way the govt can come after you for bartering. I help my brother move and he buys me dinner, the IRS will not know. But by doing it at the time bank you do open the doors for tax implications. I’d love to see this trend continue just to see how an industry develops around it.

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