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	<title>Comments on: Emergency-Proof Your Emergency Fund</title>
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	<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html</link>
	<description>like a friend telling you about money ...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:44:17 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2219</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2219</guid>
		<description>@AM - Because a HELOC has a secondary lien to the home, before the first mortgage can be refinanced, the new lender has to obtain a &quot;resubordination&quot; from the HELOC lender, basically having the HELOC lender agree to stay at 2nd position after the new loan. The HELOC lender can refuse. Or they can take their time and delay the process. Or they can charge a fee for the resubordination. To avoid such trouble, the new lender sometimes requires closing the HELOC during the refi. Then you have to open a new HELOC again after refi is done. See Bankrate.com article &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bankrate.com/finance/home-equity/home-equity-lenders-may-block-refinance-1.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Home equity lenders may block refinance&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@AM &#8211; Because a HELOC has a secondary lien to the home, before the first mortgage can be refinanced, the new lender has to obtain a &#034;resubordination&#034; from the HELOC lender, basically having the HELOC lender agree to stay at 2nd position after the new loan. The HELOC lender can refuse. Or they can take their time and delay the process. Or they can charge a fee for the resubordination. To avoid such trouble, the new lender sometimes requires closing the HELOC during the refi. Then you have to open a new HELOC again after refi is done. See Bankrate.com article <a href="http://www.bankrate.com/finance/home-equity/home-equity-lenders-may-block-refinance-1.aspx" rel="nofollow">Home equity lenders may block refinance</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: AM</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2218</link>
		<dc:creator>AM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2218</guid>
		<description>TFB, could you explain how a HELOC can complicate a mortgage refinance?  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TFB, could you explain how a HELOC can complicate a mortgage refinance?  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2217</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 05:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2217</guid>
		<description>@indexfundfan - Yes, I can use margin if I set up my Wells Fargo brokerage account as a margin account. I couldn&#039;t do it the other day because I hadn&#039;t signed the margin agreement. Since there might be implications on qualified dividends in a margin account, I&#039;m keeping my brokerage account as a straight cash account.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@indexfundfan &#8211; Yes, I can use margin if I set up my Wells Fargo brokerage account as a margin account. I couldn&#039;t do it the other day because I hadn&#039;t signed the margin agreement. Since there might be implications on qualified dividends in a margin account, I&#039;m keeping my brokerage account as a straight cash account.</p>
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		<title>By: indexfundfan</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2216</link>
		<dc:creator>indexfundfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2216</guid>
		<description>tfb, I mentioned it in your other post. You can overdraft your PMA account from a Wellstrade margin account. These is no fee for the overdraft and current margin interest is 7%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tfb, I mentioned it in your other post. You can overdraft your PMA account from a Wellstrade margin account. These is no fee for the overdraft and current margin interest is 7%</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2214</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2214</guid>
		<description>I keep about half my emergency fund in (paper) US Savings Bonds, specifically EE bonds.  My bonds are old enough that they follow interest rates up and down, but generally they&#039;ve had better rates than a savings account at the bank.  Once you hold past the initial holding period, you can pretty much cash them at a moment&#039;s notice.

To do the same today, I&#039;d probably be inclined to use I bonds instead, since I don&#039;t consider fixed rate EE bonds particularly attractive.  Of course I bonds aren&#039;t so attractive right now either because the fixed portion is so low.

There is a downside to having your funds in savings bonds, and I discovered that when I had a quick land purchase to get together.  If you are like most people, you&#039;ll defer your taxes until you cash your bonds rather than track the paperwork from year to year.  What that means is that just when you need your emergency money you will owe extra taxes (on the interest income).

After I bought my land, I decided to keep more of my emergency fund in online savings accounts so my tax is paid from year to year.  I accept that there is going to be a delay of a few days to get access to that part of my emergency fund.

I try to keep a fair amount of cash on hand, and I don&#039;t even feel bad about that with the low interest rates we enjoy right now.  There&#039;s no cash faster than that.

I also keep $500 in an NRA savings account (http://www.nrabankingcenter.com/nra/).  It doesn&#039;t have as good a rate as my other online accounts, and is mostly inferior to them in every way really.  But it does come with ATM cards.  Since $500 is the typical daily limit on an ATM, that&#039;s what I keep in the account.  It&#039;s sort of my &quot;I need cash in hand right now&quot; cash.  I think I got a $25 bonus for signing up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep about half my emergency fund in (paper) US Savings Bonds, specifically EE bonds.  My bonds are old enough that they follow interest rates up and down, but generally they&#039;ve had better rates than a savings account at the bank.  Once you hold past the initial holding period, you can pretty much cash them at a moment&#039;s notice.</p>
<p>To do the same today, I&#039;d probably be inclined to use I bonds instead, since I don&#039;t consider fixed rate EE bonds particularly attractive.  Of course I bonds aren&#039;t so attractive right now either because the fixed portion is so low.</p>
<p>There is a downside to having your funds in savings bonds, and I discovered that when I had a quick land purchase to get together.  If you are like most people, you&#039;ll defer your taxes until you cash your bonds rather than track the paperwork from year to year.  What that means is that just when you need your emergency money you will owe extra taxes (on the interest income).</p>
<p>After I bought my land, I decided to keep more of my emergency fund in online savings accounts so my tax is paid from year to year.  I accept that there is going to be a delay of a few days to get access to that part of my emergency fund.</p>
<p>I try to keep a fair amount of cash on hand, and I don&#039;t even feel bad about that with the low interest rates we enjoy right now.  There&#039;s no cash faster than that.</p>
<p>I also keep $500 in an NRA savings account (<a href="http://www.nrabankingcenter.com/nra/)" rel="nofollow">http://www.nrabankingcenter.com/nra/)</a>.  It doesn&#039;t have as good a rate as my other online accounts, and is mostly inferior to them in every way really.  But it does come with ATM cards.  Since $500 is the typical daily limit on an ATM, that&#039;s what I keep in the account.  It&#039;s sort of my &#034;I need cash in hand right now&#034; cash.  I think I got a $25 bonus for signing up.</p>
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		<title>By: KD</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2213</link>
		<dc:creator>KD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2213</guid>
		<description>I think you are trying to marry competing goals. Money that&#039;s as good as cash lying with you is never gonna generate high yields and for money to generate high yields it needs to be locked away from frequent or an anytime transaction. Rewards checking finds a way out by rewarding customers who make the effort to meet the requirements at the expense of customers who do not. I agree the rates are going to drop from astronomical 6% sooner than later but to remain competitive they are going to match or better online savings rates ..this is a clear given from the Banc Vue model of rewards checking. Some local banks can get away with rates less than online savings yields because of their extreme local nature, but mostly in more populated and/or urban areas that is not going to be the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are trying to marry competing goals. Money that&#039;s as good as cash lying with you is never gonna generate high yields and for money to generate high yields it needs to be locked away from frequent or an anytime transaction. Rewards checking finds a way out by rewarding customers who make the effort to meet the requirements at the expense of customers who do not. I agree the rates are going to drop from astronomical 6% sooner than later but to remain competitive they are going to match or better online savings rates ..this is a clear given from the Banc Vue model of rewards checking. Some local banks can get away with rates less than online savings yields because of their extreme local nature, but mostly in more populated and/or urban areas that is not going to be the case.</p>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2211</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2211</guid>
		<description>@Wm - Because most brokerage accounts are not local and brokerage branches do not dispense cash (with the exception of brokerage arms tied with a bank, like Wells Fargo or Bank of America), accessing money from a margin account is similar to accessing a money market fund or online savings account: ATM/debit card, check, ACH, or wire transfer. That&#039;s why I didn&#039;t include it as a separate item. A LOC linked to a local checking account can provide money sooner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wm &#8211; Because most brokerage accounts are not local and brokerage branches do not dispense cash (with the exception of brokerage arms tied with a bank, like Wells Fargo or Bank of America), accessing money from a margin account is similar to accessing a money market fund or online savings account: ATM/debit card, check, ACH, or wire transfer. That&#039;s why I didn&#039;t include it as a separate item. A LOC linked to a local checking account can provide money sooner.</p>
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		<title>By: Wm Tanksley</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2210</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm Tanksley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2210</guid>
		<description>Under &quot;line of credit&quot; you should mention a margin account drawn against a small pool of stocks. I do most of my banking (including direct-depositing my paycheck) through my online broker; I can write checks, use a credit/debit card, and access through ATMs.

The fact that it&#039;s a margin account means that everything deposited into it becomes available for use instantly; even large transfers (which would normally take a full week). It also means that overcharges act merely as margin charges, changing them from $25 emergencies (plus a possible bounced check, depending on how mean your bank is about it) to just a few cents margin cost plus no bounced check.

The only problem I have is that all the online financial planning sites (Wesabe, Mint, etc) seem to assume that because it&#039;s a brokerage, the only thing I&#039;d EVER want to track in it is stock prices (grr); they refuse to download transaction data (Quicken used to work fine, but I didn&#039;t upgrade and Intuit doesn&#039;t allow old Quickens to access online bank data). Buxfer works with my broker&#039;s CSV downloads, and perhaps some other broker has more convenient downloads (I encourage you to do your own comparison shopping, which is why I&#039;m not naming my broker).

And, of course, the money is swept into a money-market fund, which during better economic times puts at least a few dollars in my pockets every month. (Now it&#039;s pennies -- this ain&#039;t a 5% account.)

-Wm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Under &#034;line of credit&#034; you should mention a margin account drawn against a small pool of stocks. I do most of my banking (including direct-depositing my paycheck) through my online broker; I can write checks, use a credit/debit card, and access through ATMs.</p>
<p>The fact that it&#039;s a margin account means that everything deposited into it becomes available for use instantly; even large transfers (which would normally take a full week). It also means that overcharges act merely as margin charges, changing them from $25 emergencies (plus a possible bounced check, depending on how mean your bank is about it) to just a few cents margin cost plus no bounced check.</p>
<p>The only problem I have is that all the online financial planning sites (Wesabe, Mint, etc) seem to assume that because it&#039;s a brokerage, the only thing I&#039;d EVER want to track in it is stock prices (grr); they refuse to download transaction data (Quicken used to work fine, but I didn&#039;t upgrade and Intuit doesn&#039;t allow old Quickens to access online bank data). Buxfer works with my broker&#039;s CSV downloads, and perhaps some other broker has more convenient downloads (I encourage you to do your own comparison shopping, which is why I&#039;m not naming my broker).</p>
<p>And, of course, the money is swept into a money-market fund, which during better economic times puts at least a few dollars in my pockets every month. (Now it&#039;s pennies &#8212; this ain&#039;t a 5% account.)</p>
<p>-Wm</p>
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		<title>By: The Weakonomist</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2209</link>
		<dc:creator>The Weakonomist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2209</guid>
		<description>I keep my emergency fund in an online savings account and so far have never needed it. However if something were to come up I would use my credit card to take care of it and them transfer the funds to pay it off. It&#039;s pretty much the same as setting up an unsecured LOC only interest is compounded monthly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep my emergency fund in an online savings account and so far have never needed it. However if something were to come up I would use my credit card to take care of it and them transfer the funds to pay it off. It&#039;s pretty much the same as setting up an unsecured LOC only interest is compounded monthly.</p>
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		<title>By: TIE</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html/comment-page-1#comment-2208</link>
		<dc:creator>TIE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/06/emergency-proof-your-emergency-fund.html#comment-2208</guid>
		<description>TFB,

This is mind expanding. I always thought of my emergency funds as money for either (1) a long-term emergency like job loss, or (2) a big unforseen emergency like needing a new hot water heater. In neither of those situations do I require *cash now*. 

Perhaps it would be instructive to develop a typology of emergencies. A &quot;cash now&quot; emergency puts the greatest burden on one&#039;s personal finance infrastructure. I think that&#039;s the situation you&#039;re contemplating. It is not one to which I have given much thought.

Usually when I&#039;ve been in a &quot;cash now&quot; situation I saw it coming. When I needed a large certified check for a closing (as you did) I knew in advance. When I was overseas I brought some travelers checks.

What if I have a &quot;cash now&quot; that I can&#039;t see coming? Well, up to a certain size I&#039;d be fine. After that I&#039;d have to scramble, as you did. I could prepare in advance as you suggest. That&#039;s a good idea. 

This comes back to a fundamental problem I would love to see addressed by someone: what is the risk/reward trade-off for various emergency fund set-ups. That is, in general, the more liquid the less risk and the less reward. But maybe it is sensible to invest one&#039;s emergency fun in less liquid assets and to suffer high interest borrowing in the rare case one has an emergency. If emergencies are sufficiently rare then this is better. 

I have not seen sufficient empirical work on such things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TFB,</p>
<p>This is mind expanding. I always thought of my emergency funds as money for either (1) a long-term emergency like job loss, or (2) a big unforseen emergency like needing a new hot water heater. In neither of those situations do I require *cash now*. </p>
<p>Perhaps it would be instructive to develop a typology of emergencies. A &#034;cash now&#034; emergency puts the greatest burden on one&#039;s personal finance infrastructure. I think that&#039;s the situation you&#039;re contemplating. It is not one to which I have given much thought.</p>
<p>Usually when I&#039;ve been in a &#034;cash now&#034; situation I saw it coming. When I needed a large certified check for a closing (as you did) I knew in advance. When I was overseas I brought some travelers checks.</p>
<p>What if I have a &#034;cash now&#034; that I can&#039;t see coming? Well, up to a certain size I&#039;d be fine. After that I&#039;d have to scramble, as you did. I could prepare in advance as you suggest. That&#039;s a good idea. </p>
<p>This comes back to a fundamental problem I would love to see addressed by someone: what is the risk/reward trade-off for various emergency fund set-ups. That is, in general, the more liquid the less risk and the less reward. But maybe it is sensible to invest one&#039;s emergency fun in less liquid assets and to suffer high interest borrowing in the rare case one has an emergency. If emergencies are sufficiently rare then this is better. </p>
<p>I have not seen sufficient empirical work on such things.</p>
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