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	<title>Comments on: Buying a Car Extended Warranty</title>
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	<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html</link>
	<description>like a friend telling you about money ...</description>
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		<title>By: The Incidental Economist</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html/comment-page-1#comment-2456</link>
		<dc:creator>The Incidental Economist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 01:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html#comment-2456</guid>
		<description>@TFB - I can see your point of view. (I&#039;m not arguing with you just providing another point of view.)

But I have another. A warranty is fundamentally different than most products other than an insurance product. You&#039;re transferring risk. Most other products don&#039;t involve risk transfer. Since the seller typically knows the distribution of risk better than the buyer the seller makes money on average. The premium, on average, is above the expected value of the coverage. 

Of course you may know your risk better than the seller. So you can win with insurance. But, on average you won&#039;t. On average you&#039;re better off self-insuring. 

Yet some cannot self insure for some risks (my prior comment).

Some insurance is purchased with the hope you never need it. That&#039;s not true of most other consumer goods. Sounds like a riddle: what&#039;s something you buy but don&#039;t want to use? {Home, life, health, auto, disability, ...} insurance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TFB &#8211; I can see your point of view. (I&#8217;m not arguing with you just providing another point of view.)</p>
<p>But I have another. A warranty is fundamentally different than most products other than an insurance product. You&#8217;re transferring risk. Most other products don&#8217;t involve risk transfer. Since the seller typically knows the distribution of risk better than the buyer the seller makes money on average. The premium, on average, is above the expected value of the coverage. </p>
<p>Of course you may know your risk better than the seller. So you can win with insurance. But, on average you won&#8217;t. On average you&#8217;re better off self-insuring. </p>
<p>Yet some cannot self insure for some risks (my prior comment).</p>
<p>Some insurance is purchased with the hope you never need it. That&#8217;s not true of most other consumer goods. Sounds like a riddle: what&#8217;s something you buy but don&#8217;t want to use? {Home, life, health, auto, disability, &#8230;} insurance.</p>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html/comment-page-1#comment-2440</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html#comment-2440</guid>
		<description>@Arvind - I don&#039;t know the answer to your question. That must depend on the specific program rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Arvind &#8211; I don&#8217;t know the answer to your question. That must depend on the specific program rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Daddy Dub</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html/comment-page-1#comment-2438</link>
		<dc:creator>Daddy Dub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html#comment-2438</guid>
		<description>Came back to this again for a re-read and I like the caveat about &quot;it depends&quot;. The answer to almost every question is that the devil is always in the details. But to categorically decide that warranties are good or bad is flawed logic. The correct answer, in my opinion, is to independently analyze any purchase or decision and use your best judgment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Came back to this again for a re-read and I like the caveat about &#8220;it depends&#8221;. The answer to almost every question is that the devil is always in the details. But to categorically decide that warranties are good or bad is flawed logic. The correct answer, in my opinion, is to independently analyze any purchase or decision and use your best judgment.</p>
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		<title>By: Arvind</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html/comment-page-1#comment-2436</link>
		<dc:creator>Arvind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html#comment-2436</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard some extended warranties pay you most of the money back after the warranty period if you never use it.  Anyone know if this is true?  That&#039;s what a dealer told me once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard some extended warranties pay you most of the money back after the warranty period if you never use it.  Anyone know if this is true?  That&#8217;s what a dealer told me once.</p>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html/comment-page-1#comment-2434</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html#comment-2434</guid>
		<description>The price has to be a crucial factor. It is conceivable that the manufacturer runs an underwriting loss while creating a profit opportunity to the dealers because doing so helps the manufacturer sell cars. The manufacturer does not have to make money from these on a stand-alone basis. If you cut down the dealer markup, you get closer to the true economic value. If you can buy a 100,000-mile extended warranty for $1, I&#039;m confident you will buy it. If it&#039;s $100, it&#039;s still a good price. $5,000? Probably not. Therefore everybody must draw a line somewhere. 

Buying a warranty is not new. Whenever we buy a new car, we also buy a warranty. That warranty comes &quot;free&quot; but the price is built into the price of the car. I think the trend is increasing the warranty coverage, not cutting it and selling the car at a lower price. Some new cars also come with &quot;free&quot; maintenance for a few years. People buy new cars with free warranty and cars with free maintenance all the time. It&#039;s not irrational. People make decisions based on price and value received. 

Therefore I must say &quot;it depends&quot; when it comes to whether one should buy an extended warranty. The very first question is &quot;at what price?&quot; The next question is &quot;what do you get?&quot; Come think about it, it&#039;s not different from any other purchase decision, is it? Is a Honda Civic worth $X? Is a Ford Focus worth $Y? Are leather seats worth $Z?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The price has to be a crucial factor. It is conceivable that the manufacturer runs an underwriting loss while creating a profit opportunity to the dealers because doing so helps the manufacturer sell cars. The manufacturer does not have to make money from these on a stand-alone basis. If you cut down the dealer markup, you get closer to the true economic value. If you can buy a 100,000-mile extended warranty for $1, I&#8217;m confident you will buy it. If it&#8217;s $100, it&#8217;s still a good price. $5,000? Probably not. Therefore everybody must draw a line somewhere. </p>
<p>Buying a warranty is not new. Whenever we buy a new car, we also buy a warranty. That warranty comes &#8220;free&#8221; but the price is built into the price of the car. I think the trend is increasing the warranty coverage, not cutting it and selling the car at a lower price. Some new cars also come with &#8220;free&#8221; maintenance for a few years. People buy new cars with free warranty and cars with free maintenance all the time. It&#8217;s not irrational. People make decisions based on price and value received. </p>
<p>Therefore I must say &#8220;it depends&#8221; when it comes to whether one should buy an extended warranty. The very first question is &#8220;at what price?&#8221; The next question is &#8220;what do you get?&#8221; Come think about it, it&#8217;s not different from any other purchase decision, is it? Is a Honda Civic worth $X? Is a Ford Focus worth $Y? Are leather seats worth $Z?</p>
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		<title>By: The Incidental Economist</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html/comment-page-1#comment-2433</link>
		<dc:creator>The Incidental Economist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html#comment-2433</guid>
		<description>TFB, on your point no. 2, we agree that the insured pays a risk premium. On average that is a loss. What one is buying with the risk premium is protection from variation. What that is worth to an individual depends on that individual&#039;s risk aversion. I would argue that for the vast majority of people and for all but a few types of insurance, the risk premium is not worth it.

For anything that could be financially catastrophic (loss of your home, severe health problem) it is sensible to pay the risk premium for most people.

For some people loss of a vehicle through accident or collision is a large enough financial shock to warrant insurance.

Vehicle repairs could be costly for some people, but the size of the population for which insuring for those makes sense has got to be smaller than for the foregoing types of events.

Then there are less expensive appliances for which extended warranties are offered. These have got to be a bad value for almost everybody.

My rule is that if I can afford to self-insure I do so. That leaves me only buying insurance for health, disability, life, home, auto collision/accident (newer vehicles only), and various forms of liability coverage. I&#039;ve never bought an extended warranty and it is hard to imagine I ever will (I get some extended coverage for some purchases via my Am. Ex.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TFB, on your point no. 2, we agree that the insured pays a risk premium. On average that is a loss. What one is buying with the risk premium is protection from variation. What that is worth to an individual depends on that individual&#8217;s risk aversion. I would argue that for the vast majority of people and for all but a few types of insurance, the risk premium is not worth it.</p>
<p>For anything that could be financially catastrophic (loss of your home, severe health problem) it is sensible to pay the risk premium for most people.</p>
<p>For some people loss of a vehicle through accident or collision is a large enough financial shock to warrant insurance.</p>
<p>Vehicle repairs could be costly for some people, but the size of the population for which insuring for those makes sense has got to be smaller than for the foregoing types of events.</p>
<p>Then there are less expensive appliances for which extended warranties are offered. These have got to be a bad value for almost everybody.</p>
<p>My rule is that if I can afford to self-insure I do so. That leaves me only buying insurance for health, disability, life, home, auto collision/accident (newer vehicles only), and various forms of liability coverage. I&#8217;ve never bought an extended warranty and it is hard to imagine I ever will (I get some extended coverage for some purchases via my Am. Ex.).</p>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html/comment-page-1#comment-2432</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html#comment-2432</guid>
		<description>TIE - Thank you for your comments and questions.

1. First of all, it wasn&#039;t my decision to buy an extended warranty. I was only asked to shop for one. 

2. Second, like any insurance, the insurer is expected to make money on average. That doesn&#039;t mean all insurance is bad for the insured. After all, we buy insurance all the time. 

3. This family member already uses the dealership for all services, even for oil changes. He&#039;s had multiple bad experiences with 3rd party shops and he&#039;s happy with the dealership&#039;s repair service. He thinks the predictable outcome and efficiency is worth the price he&#039;s paying.

4. The specific extended warranty program I was asked to shop for covers everything except windshield wipers, battery, brake pads, and tires (&quot;wearable&quot; items). The cost differential on non-covered repairs is minimal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TIE &#8211; Thank you for your comments and questions.</p>
<p>1. First of all, it wasn&#8217;t my decision to buy an extended warranty. I was only asked to shop for one. </p>
<p>2. Second, like any insurance, the insurer is expected to make money on average. That doesn&#8217;t mean all insurance is bad for the insured. After all, we buy insurance all the time. </p>
<p>3. This family member already uses the dealership for all services, even for oil changes. He&#8217;s had multiple bad experiences with 3rd party shops and he&#8217;s happy with the dealership&#8217;s repair service. He thinks the predictable outcome and efficiency is worth the price he&#8217;s paying.</p>
<p>4. The specific extended warranty program I was asked to shop for covers everything except windshield wipers, battery, brake pads, and tires (&#8221;wearable&#8221; items). The cost differential on non-covered repairs is minimal.</p>
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		<title>By: The Incidental Economist</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html/comment-page-1#comment-2431</link>
		<dc:creator>The Incidental Economist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/07/buying-a-car-extended-warranty.html#comment-2431</guid>
		<description>Can you extend your reasoning to address the following?

1. The manufacturer knows more about the vehicle than any consumer does. Therefore, on average shouldn&#039;t the advantage be to the manufacturer? Shouldn&#039;t the price of the repair insurance (that&#039;s what it is) be higher than the expected cost of repairs?

2. Having such insurance may motivate the holder to visit the dealer more often than (s)he would otherwise. Not all repairs are covered. Dealer repair costs are much higher than a non-deal repair shop. Won&#039;t this lead to higher repair bills for non-covered repairs? (Visit http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/ to find mechanics recommended by the Car Talk community.)

Together, points 1 and 2 are what have always led me to ignore any thought of buying an extended warranty for a car. The only argument I can see for it being a good idea is if you know you have a crappy car. That is, you know you are a worse-than-average risk of using the repair insurance. I think if I were confident enough in that opinion I would try to sell my car and get a better one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you extend your reasoning to address the following?</p>
<p>1. The manufacturer knows more about the vehicle than any consumer does. Therefore, on average shouldn&#8217;t the advantage be to the manufacturer? Shouldn&#8217;t the price of the repair insurance (that&#8217;s what it is) be higher than the expected cost of repairs?</p>
<p>2. Having such insurance may motivate the holder to visit the dealer more often than (s)he would otherwise. Not all repairs are covered. Dealer repair costs are much higher than a non-deal repair shop. Won&#8217;t this lead to higher repair bills for non-covered repairs? (Visit <a href="http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/</a> to find mechanics recommended by the Car Talk community.)</p>
<p>Together, points 1 and 2 are what have always led me to ignore any thought of buying an extended warranty for a car. The only argument I can see for it being a good idea is if you know you have a crappy car. That is, you know you are a worse-than-average risk of using the repair insurance. I think if I were confident enough in that opinion I would try to sell my car and get a better one.</p>
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