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	<title>Comments on: Book Review: The Two Income Trap</title>
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	<description>like a friend telling you about money ...</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-688</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-688</guid>
		<description>TFB said: ...Because a large part of the families who file bankruptcy in a year are actually repeat filers?...I thought if you got your debt discharged in bankruptcy, you are not allowed to file again in the next seven years (or was it six?).&lt;br/&gt;-----------------------------------&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;1) Yes, many filers repeat, and many do repeatedly. 2) You can file again, but you can&#039;t get a second Ch. 7 discharge for 7 years. Other chapters don&#039;t have similar restrictions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TFB said: &#8230;Because a large part of the families who file bankruptcy in a year are actually repeat filers?&#8230;I thought if you got your debt discharged in bankruptcy, you are not allowed to file again in the next seven years (or was it six?).<br />&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>1) Yes, many filers repeat, and many do repeatedly. 2) You can file again, but you can&#8217;t get a second Ch. 7 discharge for 7 years. Other chapters don&#8217;t have similar restrictions.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-686</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-686</guid>
		<description>Zook-&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It seems some of you are just howling at the moon.  Humans adapt.  If you don&#039;t adapt to the current times, you will fail.....or file bankruptcy.   &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Many APPEAR to be living the high life Ted, but you must stay strong for you and your family.  There will always be haves and have-nots.  If your neighbor has a BMW and is in debt up to their hairline, look the other way.  Don&#039;t sit there and spin your wheels thinking about it as it will get you no where.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I always read how tough it is out there and then there is always the story about keeping up with the Joneses.  Well what are the Joneses doing right?  We all seem to be chasing people doing better than us, right?  The doom and gloom stuff is just silly. Cuba has better medical choices?  These type of absurd comments are just ridiculous and I feel that when discussing &quot;bankruptcy&quot; it is better to use a specific example of a person.  Generalities, for the most part, keep people discussing on blogs on totally different pages. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Aside from medical emergencies and job loss among others, what about the vast spending I see going on each and every day.  I went to a large mall two weeks ago and parked about 1000 spaces away (I am not kidding about that).  People are buying coach bags, iPods, nice clothes, $100 headphones, $60 PS3 games, what about these people and there difficulties?  I spend money there when I could have put that in an IRA or savings account.  If I spend myself into a bankruptcy, please don&#039;t shed a tear for me.  Saver the tear for someone who had a perfect storm of disaster before filing a bankruptcy and there are many of those people out there, but by no means are they the vast majority.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It just isn&#039;t true that everyone filing for bankruptcy has a sorry story.  Many have over indulged and then lost their job and had a &quot;nice run&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We don&#039;t cut your head off in the country when you file bankruptcy.  We don&#039;t take away your car, although you may need to switch wheels.  We don&#039;t take away the education you get at the public school or the air conditioning you get at your house.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;TRUST ME.  MILLIONS of smart families over seas would love to have the chances we have here (or in Cuba).  You are finding it difficult to scrap by with a household income of $65,000 a year for a family of four?  Someone would be living a DREAM, I repeat a DREAM making that and using all of the amazing things this couintry offers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zook-</p>
<p>It seems some of you are just howling at the moon.  Humans adapt.  If you don&#8217;t adapt to the current times, you will fail&#8230;..or file bankruptcy.   </p>
<p>Many APPEAR to be living the high life Ted, but you must stay strong for you and your family.  There will always be haves and have-nots.  If your neighbor has a BMW and is in debt up to their hairline, look the other way.  Don&#8217;t sit there and spin your wheels thinking about it as it will get you no where.</p>
<p>I always read how tough it is out there and then there is always the story about keeping up with the Joneses.  Well what are the Joneses doing right?  We all seem to be chasing people doing better than us, right?  The doom and gloom stuff is just silly. Cuba has better medical choices?  These type of absurd comments are just ridiculous and I feel that when discussing &#8220;bankruptcy&#8221; it is better to use a specific example of a person.  Generalities, for the most part, keep people discussing on blogs on totally different pages. </p>
<p>Aside from medical emergencies and job loss among others, what about the vast spending I see going on each and every day.  I went to a large mall two weeks ago and parked about 1000 spaces away (I am not kidding about that).  People are buying coach bags, iPods, nice clothes, $100 headphones, $60 PS3 games, what about these people and there difficulties?  I spend money there when I could have put that in an IRA or savings account.  If I spend myself into a bankruptcy, please don&#8217;t shed a tear for me.  Saver the tear for someone who had a perfect storm of disaster before filing a bankruptcy and there are many of those people out there, but by no means are they the vast majority.</p>
<p>It just isn&#8217;t true that everyone filing for bankruptcy has a sorry story.  Many have over indulged and then lost their job and had a &#8220;nice run&#8221;.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t cut your head off in the country when you file bankruptcy.  We don&#8217;t take away your car, although you may need to switch wheels.  We don&#8217;t take away the education you get at the public school or the air conditioning you get at your house.</p>
<p>TRUST ME.  MILLIONS of smart families over seas would love to have the chances we have here (or in Cuba).  You are finding it difficult to scrap by with a household income of $65,000 a year for a family of four?  Someone would be living a DREAM, I repeat a DREAM making that and using all of the amazing things this couintry offers.</p>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-683</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 05:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-683</guid>
		<description>Steaming - Just curious, why do you think that&#039;s a bad assumption? Because a large part of the families who file bankruptcy in a year are actually repeat filers? That means if you filed last year you are more likely to file again this year. The book didn&#039;t mention that. So I don&#039;t know whether it&#039;s true or not. I thought if you got your debt discharged in bankruptcy, you are not allowed to file again in the next seven years (or was it six?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steaming &#8211; Just curious, why do you think that&#8217;s a bad assumption? Because a large part of the families who file bankruptcy in a year are actually repeat filers? That means if you filed last year you are more likely to file again this year. The book didn&#8217;t mention that. So I don&#8217;t know whether it&#8217;s true or not. I thought if you got your debt discharged in bankruptcy, you are not allowed to file again in the next seven years (or was it six?).</p>
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		<title>By: Steaming in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-682</link>
		<dc:creator>Steaming in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 23:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-682</guid>
		<description>Anonymous has it right: the assumption that bankruptcies are uncorrelated random events from year to year is what causes the number to be so high.  That assumption stinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous has it right: the assumption that bankruptcies are uncorrelated random events from year to year is what causes the number to be so high.  That assumption stinks.</p>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-681</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 04:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-681</guid>
		<description>261 out of 1,000 - You got it! Since you are the only taker on the math challenge, I will give out the calculation here. Assuming filing bankruptcy in any given year is independent of each other, the probability of a &quot;family with kids&quot; not filing bankruptcy in any year is 98.5%. The probability of keeping it clean for 20 years is&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;.985 ^ 20 = 0.739&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That is, 739 of 1,000 families with kids will be able to live through those 20 years bankruptcy-free. The other 261 families will have filed bankruptcy at least once. Astonishing!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Somehow that number does not jive with intuition. Really? 26% of families file bankruptcy at least once in their child-rearing years? Maybe it&#039;s because it&#039;s such a stigma people are not telling. I just don&#039;t know that many families who have filed bankruptcy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>261 out of 1,000 &#8211; You got it! Since you are the only taker on the math challenge, I will give out the calculation here. Assuming filing bankruptcy in any given year is independent of each other, the probability of a &#8220;family with kids&#8221; not filing bankruptcy in any year is 98.5%. The probability of keeping it clean for 20 years is</p>
<p>.985 ^ 20 = 0.739</p>
<p>That is, 739 of 1,000 families with kids will be able to live through those 20 years bankruptcy-free. The other 261 families will have filed bankruptcy at least once. Astonishing!</p>
<p>Somehow that number does not jive with intuition. Really? 26% of families file bankruptcy at least once in their child-rearing years? Maybe it&#8217;s because it&#8217;s such a stigma people are not telling. I just don&#8217;t know that many families who have filed bankruptcy.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-680</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 01:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-680</guid>
		<description>Doh. I thought it was eighteen years, not twenty: 261/1000</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doh. I thought it was eighteen years, not twenty: 261/1000</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-679</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 01:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-679</guid>
		<description>WRT to the math problem. Assuming that bankruptcy is an annual independent event, its 238 out of 1,000 will file for bankruptcy.  Wow, that&#039;s high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WRT to the math problem. Assuming that bankruptcy is an annual independent event, its 238 out of 1,000 will file for bankruptcy.  Wow, that&#8217;s high.</p>
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		<title>By: TFB</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-676</link>
		<dc:creator>TFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-676</guid>
		<description>Ted - If I made it sound like easy, I apologize. It&#039;s not easy. We all know that. The lower on the income ladder you go down, the harder it is. All I&#039;m saying is what mcfnord said more succinctly. At the end of the day, we can complain or whine about how it got worse than in the good ol&#039; days, or we can do what we can to protect ourselves. When we face more economic uncertainty, do we continue our path of consumption or even increase our consumption as if we were still in the good ol&#039; days, or do we consume less and live further below our means? I think the answer is obvious. That&#039;s exactly what you and mcfnord and many others are doing. It&#039;s not easy and you won&#039;t eliminate your risk completely, but if you ever go to a developing country, you will find that Americans are still worrying about a lot of things people there don&#039;t even have the luxury to worry about. They&#039;d love to have our problems. Americans who are facing foreclosure at least have a house to be foreclosed on. Consider people in a developing country who are doing the same job as you do, and ask yourself, &quot;What am I doing that makes me have a higher standard of living than theirs, other than the fact I live in America?&quot; They are my competitors in the global workforce. They have the same skills and they are working just as hard. Can I live like they do? &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;For people who consume less, save money and have insurance, we can&#039;t guarantee we won&#039;t fall off the cliff if something bad happens to us. All we are doing is keeping some distance away from the edge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted &#8211; If I made it sound like easy, I apologize. It&#8217;s not easy. We all know that. The lower on the income ladder you go down, the harder it is. All I&#8217;m saying is what mcfnord said more succinctly. At the end of the day, we can complain or whine about how it got worse than in the good ol&#8217; days, or we can do what we can to protect ourselves. When we face more economic uncertainty, do we continue our path of consumption or even increase our consumption as if we were still in the good ol&#8217; days, or do we consume less and live further below our means? I think the answer is obvious. That&#8217;s exactly what you and mcfnord and many others are doing. It&#8217;s not easy and you won&#8217;t eliminate your risk completely, but if you ever go to a developing country, you will find that Americans are still worrying about a lot of things people there don&#8217;t even have the luxury to worry about. They&#8217;d love to have our problems. Americans who are facing foreclosure at least have a house to be foreclosed on. Consider people in a developing country who are doing the same job as you do, and ask yourself, &#8220;What am I doing that makes me have a higher standard of living than theirs, other than the fact I live in America?&#8221; They are my competitors in the global workforce. They have the same skills and they are working just as hard. Can I live like they do? </p>
<p>For people who consume less, save money and have insurance, we can&#8217;t guarantee we won&#8217;t fall off the cliff if something bad happens to us. All we are doing is keeping some distance away from the edge.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-675</guid>
		<description>I am the single bread winner for my family.  We live below our means.  We save.  I have insurance.  We drive old paid for cars.  No consumer debt.  Kids share a room.  But its not easy, especially when I see so many couples that APPEAR to be doing so much better.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You say &quot;consume less&quot; like that&#039;s easy.  Our whole US economy is dependent on consumption and is a force like a freight train bearing down at all times.  People were recently guilted into spending their stimulus checks &quot;for the good of the country.&quot;  What a bunch of bologna that is!  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Nevertheless, we who don&#039;t over consume are still one really bad thing (accident, extended job loss, death, economic troubles) from being on the edge.  That&#039;s the way it is these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am the single bread winner for my family.  We live below our means.  We save.  I have insurance.  We drive old paid for cars.  No consumer debt.  Kids share a room.  But its not easy, especially when I see so many couples that APPEAR to be doing so much better.  </p>
<p>You say &#8220;consume less&#8221; like that&#8217;s easy.  Our whole US economy is dependent on consumption and is a force like a freight train bearing down at all times.  People were recently guilted into spending their stimulus checks &#8220;for the good of the country.&#8221;  What a bunch of bologna that is!  </p>
<p>Nevertheless, we who don&#8217;t over consume are still one really bad thing (accident, extended job loss, death, economic troubles) from being on the edge.  That&#8217;s the way it is these days.</p>
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		<title>By: mcfnord</title>
		<link>http://thefinancebuff.com/book-review-two-income-trap.html#comment-674</link>
		<dc:creator>mcfnord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.thefinancebuff.com/?p=263#comment-674</guid>
		<description>based on her thesis, which you seem to have confirmed, it is necessary to live further below your means now than in the past, because the risk of expense is substantially higher now, and reserves for addressing such a situation are weaker. so we must live FAR below our means now.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;(i believe i do live far below my means.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>based on her thesis, which you seem to have confirmed, it is necessary to live further below your means now than in the past, because the risk of expense is substantially higher now, and reserves for addressing such a situation are weaker. so we must live FAR below our means now.</p>
<p>(i believe i do live far below my means.)</p>
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